Archive for August, 2009

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

Victor wrote:

“Study the Tablet of the Holy Mariner that ye may know the truth, and consider that the Blessed Beauty hath fully foretold future events. Let them who perceive, take warning!”

–‘Abdu’l-Bahá

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

doris wrote:

Of course he interpreted! He has interpreted those passages to mean what he wants it to mean – that those words apply to a specific group of people right here and now in the present

That’s correct Doris. Here is the authoritative interpretation of that Tablet:

“Concerning the Tablet of the Holy Mariner, it is one of the most significant Tablets revealed by Bahá’u’lláh during the last days of His stay in Baghdad, and His arrival in Adrianople. Its main significance lies in the fact that in it Bahá’u’lláh clearly foreshadows the grave happenings, which eventually led to the defection of Subhi-Azal, and to the schism which the latter thought to create within the ranks of the faithful.”

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, August 10, 1934)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 483) Susan

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

KPS59 wrote:

Still wrong you are Doris.
There is no interpretation involved in direct verbatim quotes. It is you who has misconstrued the quotes from the Baha’i Writings which were posted by Victor. He never gave any interpretations, what you are reading is directly from the writings.

Of course he interpreted! He has interpreted those passages to mean what he wants it to mean – that those words apply to a specific group of people right here and now in the present and, as is the way of cultists, that any portents of death and righteous vengenace applies to those he disagrees with.

Twas ever thus. It’s one of the hallmarks of cultists. Scripture is *always* about them and their enemies and it’s always crystal clear.Doris

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

doris wrote:

Here, your persecution complex and unwavering conviction that the truth is your own personal plaything have led you to miss the point. That point being that Victor mis-interprets selective passages to fit in with his wn prejudices. Well, wouldn’t you know it – God hates the same people Victor does! It’s what cultists always believe.

Doris,

See response to #176.
KPS59

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

doris wrote:

Now you’re just being silly. Victor, like most cultists before him, and I dare say many after him, mis-interprets religious scripture in ways that, well-wouldn’t-you-cotton-picki ng-know-it, hold gloomy portents of violent divine retribution against the very people he is in disagreement with.
Well, who’d have guessed, huh?

Still wrong you are Doris.

There is no interpretation involved in direct verbatim quotes. It is you who has misconstrued the quotes from the Baha’i Writings which were posted by Victor. He never gave any interpretations, what you are reading is directly from the writings.

What part of this are you unwilling or unable to grasp?

The statements you are responding to are not Victor’s, they are direct quotes from the writings of Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha’ and Shoghi Effendi given without interpretation as none is needed for they are crystal clear.
KPS59

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

KPS59 wrote:

Here you’ve missed the fact that the words you’ve grasped onto to make your point are not the words of Mr. Woods, they are as noted at the bottom of his post, the very words of Shoghi Effendi.

Here, your persecution complex and unwavering conviction that the truth is your own personal plaything have led you to miss the point. That point being that Victor mis-interprets selective passages to fit in with his wn prejudices. Well, wouldn’t you know it – God hates the same people Victor does! It’s what cultists always believe.Doris

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

KPS59 wrote:

How very wrong you are dear Doris.
You’ve once again failed to comprehend what you read, thereby proving my point. In no instance did anyone wish any other one’s “a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with” as you erroneously put it.
Rather, you have failed to see what is directly before your eyes which was Baha’ullah Himself stating the coming demise of those who violate His Covenant in His Tablet of The Holy Mariner which is not as you put it earlier “a bomb” but in reality a “burning meteor”. How could you possibly so grossly misconstrue those words? How could you not know the contents of that Tablet well enough to know that those are the words of Baha’u’llah and then vainly attribute them to another in an attempt to muddy the waters?
Once again, none of the passages you’ve taken issue with are anything at all but excerpts of the writings of three of the central figures of the Baha’i Faith, Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha’ and Shoghi Effendi, all quoted in context to illustrate the straight path to God’s Kingdom, the World Order of Baha’u’llah.

Now you’re just being silly. Victor, like most cultists before him, and I dare say many after him, mis-interprets religious scripture in ways that, well-wouldn’t-you-cotton-picki ng-know-it, hold gloomy portents of violent divine retribution against the very people he is in disagreement with.

Well, who’d have guessed, huh?Doris

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

doris wrote:

You were NOT talking about an ordeal for the whole of humanity (which I would suggest is a spiritual ordeal and has already arrived in spiritual form as much of humanity has forgotten God. It’s usually cults who believe in literal firey death, hell and brimstone etc..etc..and you are no exception.)
No, you were NOT talking about a fiery test for humanity, Victor. You were trying to come across as loving and tolerant to all, as Janice seems to be, while at the same time wishing for a literal fiery death upon a VERY SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE YOU DISAGREE WITH.
And that is stunning.

Here you’ve missed the fact that the words you’ve grasped onto to make your point are not the words of Mr. Woods, they are as noted at the bottom of his post, the very words of Shoghi Effendi.
KPS59

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

doris wrote:

This “one voice among them” who “comes forth with love…” would be the same one who also came forth wishing a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with.
How very loving.

How very wrong you are dear Doris.

You’ve once again failed to comprehend what you read, thereby proving my point. In no instance did anyone wish any other one’s “a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with” as you erroneously put it.

Rather, you have failed to see what is directly before your eyes which was Baha’ullah Himself stating the coming demise of those who violate His Covenant in His Tablet of The Holy Mariner which is not as you put it earlier “a bomb” but in reality a “burning meteor”. How could you possibly so grossly misconstrue those words? How could you not know the contents of that Tablet well enough to know that those are the words of Baha’u’llah and then vainly attribute them to another in an attempt to muddy the waters?

Once again, none of the passages you’ve taken issue with are anything at all but excerpts of the writings of three of the central figures of the Baha’i Faith, Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha’ and Shoghi Effendi, all quoted in context to illustrate the straight path to God’s Kingdom, the World Order of Baha’u’llah.
KPS59

Re: Chicago Tribune Article

Thursday, August 13th, 2009

KPS59 wrote:
How very odd.
Here we witness the bizarre spectacle of a variety of souls claiming fealty to Baha’u’llah and His Revelation clamoring and vilifying one another. Then, when one voice among them comes forth with love…

This “one voice among them” who “comes forth with love…” would be the same one who also came forth wishing a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with.

How very loving.Doris