Baha’i Justice

doris wrote:

This “one voice among them” who “comes forth with love…” would be the same one who also came forth wishing a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with.
How very loving.

How very wrong you are dear Doris.

You’ve once again failed to comprehend what you read, thereby proving my point. In no instance did anyone wish any other one’s “a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with” as you erroneously put it.

Rather, you have failed to see what is directly before your eyes which was Baha’ullah Himself stating the coming demise of those who violate His Covenant in His Tablet of The Holy Mariner which is not as you put it earlier “a bomb” but in reality a “burning meteor”. How could you possibly so grossly misconstrue those words? How could you not know the contents of that Tablet well enough to know that those are the words of Baha’u’llah and then vainly attribute them to another in an attempt to muddy the waters?

Once again, none of the passages you’ve taken issue with are anything at all but excerpts of the writings of three of the central figures of the Baha’i Faith, Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha’ and Shoghi Effendi, all quoted in context to illustrate the straight path to God’s Kingdom, the World Order of Baha’u’llah.
KPS59

KPS59 wrote:
How very odd.
Here we witness the bizarre spectacle of a variety of souls claiming fealty to Baha’u’llah and His Revelation clamoring and vilifying one another. Then, when one voice among them comes forth with love…

This “one voice among them” who “comes forth with love…” would be the same one who also came forth wishing a fiery, violent death on those he disagrees with.

How very loving.Doris

In case these ones should seize upon my abbreviation of the above quote as a pretext for opposition to it, I will here provide it in it’s entirety. The application of it is still appropriate and in direct fulfillment of it nonetheless.

“How great, how very great is the Cause; how very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindred of the earth! Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America,the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from afar and near. One and all they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the Knights of the Lord, assisted by grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse:`Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!’ “

`Abdu’l-Baha, son of and immediate successor to Baha’u’llah, founder of the Baha’i Faith quoted by Shoghi Effendi in “The World Order of Baha’u’llah” pg. 17.
KPS59

How very odd.

Here we witness the bizarre spectacle of a variety of souls claiming fealty to Baha’u’llah and His Revelation clamoring and vilifying one another. Then, when one voice among them comes forth with love and gives proofs by quoting from the storehouse of the writings of the Central Figures of the Baha’i Faith they align with each other to attack that individual by denouncing the very writings which he quotes.

Their attacks are couched in the form of personal attacks aimed at the one quoting from the writings but the reality is that they are one and all united in opposing the words of Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha’ and Shoghi Effendi, to say nothing of their attacks upon the living Gaurdian, Head, Executive Branch Neal Chase Ben Joseph Aghsan. This is indeed a mysterious, grievous affliction.

“How great, how very great is the Cause; how very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth!…One and all they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the Knights of the Lord, assisted by grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse:`Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!’ “
Quoted from `Abdu’l-Baha, son of and immediate successor to Baha’u’llah, founder of the Baha’i Faith.
KPS59

All of the many points of view here dramatically demonstrate for the people of Chicago that, despite the shameless lie of the Wilmette Baha’is before Judge Amy St. Eve in its nsa-memo.pdf on 2006, claiming, while distorting the earlier court’s decision, that “No question of religious liberty is involved.” In fact, the lawsuit is ESSENTIALLY about religious liberty.

Judge Amy St. Eve wisely perceived it as such, despite all the obfuscation. God willing, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals will do so likewise, and thereby set aright for American citizens what a forged will and testament has created.Frederick

Janice wrote:
Doris,
It takes great courage to go on to that Talk.Religion.Bahai site. I have only visited on two ocassions and it is amazing the hateful things that are said there. It almost seems like the people want attention and aren’t really, truly seeking. I don’t know how you know who is and who is not an Orthodox Baha’i.

I might suggest that the Orthodox Bahai`s are easy to spot on what I agree is an abomination of a talk group that seems to exist for hateful rather than spiritual purposes, because they identify themselves as such quite readily. From the top of my head I know some of them are called Ross, David, and Jeffrey.Quinn

Victor Woods wrote:

Who knows that for so exalted a conception to take shape a suffering more intense than any it has yet experienced will have to be inflicted upon humanity?

You were NOT talking about an ordeal for the whole of humanity (which I would suggest is a spiritual ordeal and has already arrived in spiritual form as much of humanity has forgotten God. It’s usually cults who believe in literal firey death, hell and brimstone etc..etc..and you are no exception.)

No, you were NOT talking about a fiery test for humanity, Victor. You were trying to come across as loving and tolerant to all, as Janice seems to be, while at the same time wishing for a literal fiery death upon a VERY SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE YOU DISAGREE WITH.

And that is stunning.Doris

Doris,

It takes great courage to go on to that Talk.Religion.Bahai site. I have only visited on two ocassions and it is amazing the hateful things that are said there. It almost seems like the people want attention and aren’t really, truly seeking. I don’t know how you know who is and who is not an Orthodox Baha’i. I don’t even really know what you are. It seems as though you are sympathetic to the Sans-Guardian Baha’is but you must have some special sort of permission to talk to us because my understanding was that it is prohibitted for you to talk to those deemed covenant breakers. It is amazing the amount of knowledge that you have of all the groups and I admire your fearlessness because to me it means you are trusting God’s ability to protect you or cure you if you were to become “infected” with a “spiritual disease” (as many Sans-Guardian Baha’is have these odd fears). I can’t speak for my Orthodox Baha’i friends’ actions on that website. If they tend to focus on matters dealing with the Covenant it could be that they feel the enemies within are far more damaging than the enemies without the faith. It is like a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. The spiritual food and remedy that God has given us for this ailing world is being tainted by the ones in power. If the message is distorted or changed, it may not actually heal the sick as intended.
Could a non-believer actually have permission to go to the Archives on Mt. Carmel and get access to read documents? Could the group that asserts the Will and Testament is false have access to examine it? It would be nice if the documents were for all of humanity and not just a select few. I do not know the policy of the Sans-Guardian Baha’is regarding these matters. I was politely asked not to contact them anymore because of my interest in the Orthodox Group. You are the only one and others on these comment posts(if you are indeed a Sans-Guardian Baha’i) that I have spoken to regarding these matters and I am grateful for your imput. Janice

doris wrote:

And there we have the standard cult hypocrisy. Congratulating Janice for her call to loving kindness for all, and implying that’s what the cult wishes for too, while simultaneously wishing that a bomb should land on those the cult disagrees with.
Stunning. Just stunning.

Who knows that for so exalted a conception to take shape a suffering more intense than any it has yet experienced will have to be inflicted upon humanity? Could anything less than the fire of a civil war with all its violence and vicissitudes — a war that nearly rent the great American Republic — have welded the states, not only into a Union of independent units, but into a Nation, in spite of all the ethnic differences that characterized its component parts? That so fundamental a revolution, involving such far-reaching changes in the structure of society, can be achieved through the ordinary processes of diplomacy and education seems highly improbable. We have but to turn our gaze to humanity’s blood-stained history to realize that nothing short of intense mental as well as physical agony has been able to precipitate those epoch-making changes that constitute the greatest landmarks in the history of human civilization. The Fire of Ordeal

Great and far-reaching as have been those changes in the past, they cannot appear, when viewed in their proper perspective, except as subsidiary adjustments preluding that transformation of unparalleled majesty and scope which humanity is in this age bound to undergo. That the forces of a world catastrophe can alone precipitate such a new phase of human thought is, alas, becoming increasingly apparent. That nothing short of the fire of a severe ordeal, unparalleled in its intensity, can fuse and weld the discordant entities that constitute the elements of present-day civilization, into the integral components of the world commonwealth of the future, is a truth which future events will increasingly demonstrate.

The prophetic voice of Bahá’u’lláh warning, in the concluding passages of the Hidden Words, “the peoples of the world” that “an unforeseen calamity is following them and that grievous retribution awaiteth them” throws indeed a lurid light upon the immediate fortunes of sorrowing humanity. Nothing but a fiery ordeal, out of which humanity will emerge, chastened and prepared, can succeed in implanting that sense of responsibility which the leaders of a new-born age must arise to shoulder.

I would again direct your attention to those ominous words of Bahá’u’lláh which I have already quoted: “And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.”

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 45)
Victor

Victor wrote:
Janice…you’re a marvelous example for us all. This is the Baha’i Faith we’re talking about and thus I do have faith that things will be put aright. So it is prophesied by Baha’u’llah that a “burning meteor” will cast them out from the “Kingdom of His Presence”. This is Mount Carmel where the Covenant-breakers have been abiding in the King of His Presence for fifty years after declaring “Bada”. I do not envy their plight. So I think things will work themselves out, in fact, I have the greatest Faith they will.

And there we have the standard cult hypocrisy. Congratulating Janice for her call to loving kindness for all, and implying that’s what the cult wishes for too, while simultaneously wishing that a bomb should land on those the cult disagrees with.

Stunning. Just stunning.Doris